The LEATHER ROOM - will try to add a few pics each week
- Thread starter lesterj2
- Start date
Harry Myers
Member
That is absolutely incredible Tony. Beautiful work. I am amazed . Almost makes me want to take a leather course. Thanks For the great work.
harryhides
Member
lesterj2 said:
I was first taught the LeatherMaster system which involved rubbing or painting on the pigment on finished leather but did not care for how long it took or the quality of the results. The method I was taught by the Leather Institute in NY used an airbrush which was a big improvement.
Now with Rogers system I don't use the airbrush very much.
Thank you Harry but it's really nothing like as difficult as what you do.
You will be very interested to see some of the stuff that Roger will be showing us here soon that will utilize current skills of folks like you, John and Steve.
:mrgreen:
lesterj2 said:
Basically there are only two types of color for leather.
Dyes refer to the transparent type and typically are classed as aniline leather.
Colors refer to the opaque type and typically are classed as pigmented leather.
Aniline leather is always dyed through (dye-thru) where the reverse side has the same color as the surface.
And in most cases they are also “dye-on” with special binders that stays on the surface.
You may have read from other forum that says dyes and pigment do not mix.
The truth is yes they can be mixed if both are of the same media (aqueous)
A mixed spray will give suede or nubuck the depth of penetration with a good surface coverage.
Application can be both padded / foam-brush / airbrush / spray coat with any combination.
I have refinished a $3500 Zegna® jacket just with Poly-Brush® (And it just smells like brand new Money, so true!).
Roger Koh
Jack May
That Kiwi
Roger Koh said:
Mikey, can we start a petition to change the name from the ToolBox to the CashBox?
John
Jack May
That Kiwi
Re:
Nice letter there Roger.
Do you have any system that may be able to restore this piece?
John
Nice letter there Roger.
Do you have any system that may be able to restore this piece?
John
John Middleton said:Can you suggest anything for this suite Tony?
It is (was) a waxed finish but may as well be a totally unfinished leather. Really nice soft hand. Owner of the best interior decoraters in town. The dogs have been using it and the wife told him she needed a new one but he reckons he can't afford to keep putting a new leather suite into the house every second year.
On the bottom photo, I did a little test cleaning on the rhs of the seat cushion.
John
harryhides
Member
Alrighty then John but I was sure I could see little hoof marks on you leather suite and who knows Roger may just have a Leather cleaner for sheep spit !! Try saying that fast.
Shorty, you have a filthy mind - I thought you had changed your ways.
Shorty, you have a filthy mind - I thought you had changed your ways.
Re: Re:
John Middleton said:Do you have any system that may be able to restore this piece?
John
John Middleton said:This piece is most likely “semi-aniline” (mono-tone with penetrated stains).
And here are the options for a restoration & sanitizing cleaning.
Like to know why in this sequence?
1. Spotting (after identification)
d’Protein11.0™ pH value 11.0 is a protein based spotting agent for vomit, urine, eggs, milk, creams on all leathers.
d’Blood9.9™ pH value 9.9 is a blood and albumen spotting agent for all leathers.
d’Ink7.7™ pH value 7.7 is a general silicone, oil, grease, dye transfer and ink spotting agent for all leathers.
Beside there are others - see product list you have.
2. Degreasing
d’Grease4.9™ pH value 4.9 is an aqueous leather safe degreaser like oil, dressing, butter or lotion for all leathers.
3. Cleaning
clean3.8™ pH value 3.8 is a leather safe aqueous general purpose cleaner for all leathers.
4. Rinsing
rinse3.0™ pH value 3.0 is a leather safe aqueous mild acidifier all purpose rinse for all leathers.
5. Organic Odor Control
d’Bacteria3.7™ pH value 3.7 is a leather safe, biodegradable, odorless and colorless bactericide to kill organic odors for all leathers.
6. Rehydration
relaxer3.3™ pH value 3.3 is a leather safe rehydrating structure conditioner for all stiff, crease, wrinkle and age dried leathers.
7. Structure Conditioning
fatliquor5.0™ pH value ±5.0 is an anionic (-) charged micro emulsion fatliquor for softening and strengthening all leathers.
8. Surface Conditioning
leatherScent’B™ is a non film-forming, non-stick tactile feel conditioner to enhance a soft natural buttery feel with a classic leather scent.
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
Harry Myers
Member
Wow . Roger is that a complete kit. Does it come with instructions on how to.
Harry Myers said:
Of course it comes with instruction and with MSDS too!
The complete kit for Part 1 Cleaning & Conditioning alone = 37 individual product.
Part 2 Repair & Auxiliary = 11 individual product.
Part 3 Primary Color, Secondary Color, Fix & Top Coat = 24 individual product type (not counting colors).
Like me to email you the complete product list?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
Jack May
That Kiwi
Hey Roger,
thanks for that.
A couple of questions if you don't mind. Firstly, results wise, how close would that process produce compared to the original look? I'm not doubting, just I like to be able to set realistic expectations prior to taking on a job.
Secondly, why the degreaser second? I'd have thought with the dogs having lived on it, there would be an oily film over the leather that would inhibit the effectiveness of the spotting agents?
Also, thanks for the pricing, I don't think those 'kits' on there?
John
thanks for that.
A couple of questions if you don't mind. Firstly, results wise, how close would that process produce compared to the original look? I'm not doubting, just I like to be able to set realistic expectations prior to taking on a job.
Secondly, why the degreaser second? I'd have thought with the dogs having lived on it, there would be an oily film over the leather that would inhibit the effectiveness of the spotting agents?
Also, thanks for the pricing, I don't think those 'kits' on there?
John
John Middleton said:
In the Leather Doctor® System, we fulfill the IICRC S300 Standard for Professional Leather Cleaning.
“Level of Cleaning” should match the “Degree of Soiling”.
In this case we are talking about “Restoration Cleaning or Salvage Cleaning”.
Stains from different source require different chemistry to deal with them.
And why the need of d’Bacteria3.7™, because firstly leather is protein fiber, with protein stains it attracts natural bacteria form the atmosphere.
Organic odor is a sign of bacteria activities especially when weather is warmer and humidity is higher.
So professional cleaning goes beyond just for “look”, it has to satisfy the “nose” too.
And it is also the reason why the “leather scent” comes into play because it makes lots of “cents” too.
This leather in question is original “Semi-Aniline” and originally there is no “WAX” on semi-aniline characteristically.
The wax is a mismatch and has become a “foreign contaminants” that has no place in “semi-aniline”.
For a 100% strip you need the help of d’Ink7.7™ (without deteriorating the existing finish for a refinishing).
Semi-Aniline because of the desire seating comfort (breathability = absorbability) is the best trade off aesthetically with a micro pigment finish for cleanability is still more fragile than a pigmented leather.
As semi-aniline dry and wet rub resistance is not as good (more of a need to reduce friction with leatherScent’B™ than just “protection” that does not reduce friction - as leather furniture is design basically to be sit on rather than walking in the rain) as pigmented leather, therefore I believe successful spotting may also affect the delicate micro-pigment finish.
Do not overlook that what you see is just spots, stains and soil, but worn areas, scuff or scratch cannot be solved by cleaning alone.
So, pre-warn the possible need for an aesthetic light refinish too!
Cleaning only delivers the “hygienic” aspect with aesthetic to a limit (finish conditions camouflage by soiling - remove the soil may also reveal the finish damage - so please pre-qualify).
So the question is how to deliver the finish to its original characteristic, so that customers can enjoy its original comfort of breathability (especially on warm humid weather, lounging on a semi-aniline leather is more comfortable than on a pigment leather).
Use semiColor74™ (this is specially design for semi-aniline leathers) with matching semiTop57G for gloss and 57M for matte.
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
note: I will answer your second question on the next post
Jack May
That Kiwi
Hey Roger, just bringing this one back up in case you got busy and let it slide.
Care to comment on why the degreaser after the spotters?
When working on carpets and fabric upholstery, I generally find the oil/grease film removed first allows superior results on the spotting agents.
Obviously different on leather and I wouldn't mind knowing why if you don't mind.
Secondly, thanks for the price list, although you don't seem to have any of your 'kits' listed. Can you forward me a copy of those too please.
John
Care to comment on why the degreaser after the spotters?
When working on carpets and fabric upholstery, I generally find the oil/grease film removed first allows superior results on the spotting agents.
Obviously different on leather and I wouldn't mind knowing why if you don't mind.
Secondly, thanks for the price list, although you don't seem to have any of your 'kits' listed. Can you forward me a copy of those too please.
John
John Middleton said:
Kit is only for “Kidding” you!
Select any combination from the 37 cleaning and conditioning products becomes a “kit” of your choice and there will be countless numbers of kits!
Maybe what you need is to prioritize your services under the below heading, and I will do the matching relevant products to be used for each leather type.
Leather Service Headings:
1. Pigmented (Residential, Commercial, Aircraft & Auto)
2. Semi-Aniline
3. Pure Aniline
5. Waxed Aniline
6. Aniline
7. Waxed Pull-up Aniline
8. Oiled Pull-up Aniline
9. Vegetable Tanned (Craft, Natural, Tooling, Saddle & Tack, etc)
10. Hair-On Hides
11. Skins, Furs, Hair & Feathers
12. Suede & Suede Split
13. Nubuck
14. Bicast (Laminated)
15. Simulated (Vinyl, PVC, Naugahyde®)
16. Woolskin (Sheepskin, Shearling, Llama, etc.)
17. others.
What do you think?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
harryhides
Member
Hey Roger, what's the difference between #3 and #6 ??
John will definitely want # 16 and #17.
:mrgreen:
John will definitely want # 16 and #17.
:mrgreen:
John Middleton said:
Leather Permanent-Marker (sharpie), Ballpoint-ink, Dye-transfer, Oil and Grease Spotters generally has a higher concentration of working ingredient than the degreaser.
Example d’Ink7.7™ is 21 times more in concentration than d’Grease4.9™.
And d’Oil4.4™ is half the strength of d’Ink7.7™ in effectiveness but leather safe with no darkening effect on absorbent leathers, suede or nubuck.
d’Marker10.5™ is a self pH neutralizing product as it dries.
These spotters make the degreaser redundant as for spotting.
However, it is very necessary to follow up with a general degreasing with d’Grease4.9™ so as to feather out the obvious contrast in appearance when spotting on heavily soiled leathers.
All these above spotters and degreaser have some kind of sticky residue that cannot be detect by hand, however they all have to removed by clean3.8™ (an all purpose leather safe cleaner follows by rinse3.0™).
- That’s the sequence of the “leather safe” cleaning system!
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
This is #3 Pure Aniline
Picture #1 Leather Type: Pure Aniline
Picture #2 The Brand
Picture #3 Cleaning Cautions
Picture #4 The Explanation
Picture #5 Sensitivity of Pure Aniline
Picture #6 Result of Wet Cleaning with “Leather Safe” system!
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
Picture #1 Leather Type: Pure Aniline
Picture #2 The Brand
Picture #3 Cleaning Cautions
Picture #4 The Explanation
Picture #5 Sensitivity of Pure Aniline
Picture #6 Result of Wet Cleaning with “Leather Safe” system!
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
Jack May
That Kiwi
I can see I'm going to have to re think my stand on garments and accessories!!
The only garment I've done is this job. Old leather coat that had passed through several generations and so had sentimental value but she hated the 'baby poo' colour as she said.
John
The only garment I've done is this job. Old leather coat that had passed through several generations and so had sentimental value but she hated the 'baby poo' colour as she said.
John
Waxed Aniline
This is #5 Waxed Aniline (Please do not mix up with Aniline Wax Pull-up)
This is the $3500.00 waxed aniline jacket (see above testimony referred by http://www.harryrosen.com).
Picture #1 The brand - Ermenegildo Zegna®
Picture #2 The Instruction - an advanced cleaning instruction equally match by the "leather safe" Leather Doctor® System
Picture #3 Further Information
Picture #4 Catsups Stains
Picture #5 Cleaning with clean3.8™
Picture #6 Acidifying Rinse with rinse3.0™
Picture #7 Fatliquoring with fatliquor5.0™
Picture #8 “Dye-On” dye with anilineDye21™
Picture #9 Simply apply with a 3 inch Poly-Brush® - see the bronze effect from the aniline dye.
Picture #10 Top coated with a very soft “waxy matte” anilineTop53WM™ to protect the dye for better wet rub resistance and also to deepen the black thus diminishing the “bronze effect” (See the contrasting panel before top coating and after).
Picture #11 Finished - See how the leather drapes gracefully like a curtain - thanks to fatliquor5.0™.
And off course you can't really be charmed by the classic leather scent without your nose on it.
And the testimony confirms that it was "better than new condition"... see testimony on above post.
And who say that you need a "spray booth" for color refinishing.
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
This is #5 Waxed Aniline (Please do not mix up with Aniline Wax Pull-up)
This is the $3500.00 waxed aniline jacket (see above testimony referred by http://www.harryrosen.com).
Picture #1 The brand - Ermenegildo Zegna®
Picture #2 The Instruction - an advanced cleaning instruction equally match by the "leather safe" Leather Doctor® System
Picture #3 Further Information
Picture #4 Catsups Stains
Picture #5 Cleaning with clean3.8™
Picture #6 Acidifying Rinse with rinse3.0™
Picture #7 Fatliquoring with fatliquor5.0™
Picture #8 “Dye-On” dye with anilineDye21™
Picture #9 Simply apply with a 3 inch Poly-Brush® - see the bronze effect from the aniline dye.
Picture #10 Top coated with a very soft “waxy matte” anilineTop53WM™ to protect the dye for better wet rub resistance and also to deepen the black thus diminishing the “bronze effect” (See the contrasting panel before top coating and after).
Picture #11 Finished - See how the leather drapes gracefully like a curtain - thanks to fatliquor5.0™.
And off course you can't really be charmed by the classic leather scent without your nose on it.
And the testimony confirms that it was "better than new condition"... see testimony on above post.
And who say that you need a "spray booth" for color refinishing.
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
Jack May
That Kiwi
Roger, do you solely have the work come to you for work in your shop?
Secondly, is it all local stuff that it dropped off by customers, or wider area that is couriered?
Cheers, John
Secondly, is it all local stuff that it dropped off by customers, or wider area that is couriered?
Cheers, John
Upholstery of any kind is delivered to my place at the customer’s expense even aircanada.com with no exception.
I did leather/fur wholesale to high-end dry cleaners (they becomes my collecting agent) on condition that I do “pre-qualify” customer’s options, priority and also their expectation.
Propose job scope can range from standard $49 to custom $1200 per garment.
I did the pick-up and delivery and give them a 25% cut on a weekly round (now I retire from this experience - preparing to train this segment of the industry and passing the skills to them if they care to take up training).
All danier.com, harryrosen.com, coach.com referred their customer direct to us (I only undertake those job I think need some knowledge and skills or only if they are willing to pay my price otherwise I sell them these products for their own DIY).
In Singapore, I had client that flew their private aircraft from Indonesia all the way hand delivered to me.
The Sultan of Johor was my client too whenever they travel to cold countries they will return with leathers and furs and drop it off to my place (That is from Malaysia to Singapore).
This also tells you that I left at the peak of my business to migrate to Canada mainly based on my leather skills (novice patentable system).
And here I start all over again in a strange land (even dry cleaners decline that I speak to their customers for they say I don’t speaks BC English), now my homeland.
This slowing down with services allows me time to perfect the Leather Doctor® System.
My point is, perfect your skills with the best leather system available come first.
Pickups, drop-off, courier are all options that suites you (you have the last say).
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
I did leather/fur wholesale to high-end dry cleaners (they becomes my collecting agent) on condition that I do “pre-qualify” customer’s options, priority and also their expectation.
Propose job scope can range from standard $49 to custom $1200 per garment.
I did the pick-up and delivery and give them a 25% cut on a weekly round (now I retire from this experience - preparing to train this segment of the industry and passing the skills to them if they care to take up training).
All danier.com, harryrosen.com, coach.com referred their customer direct to us (I only undertake those job I think need some knowledge and skills or only if they are willing to pay my price otherwise I sell them these products for their own DIY).
In Singapore, I had client that flew their private aircraft from Indonesia all the way hand delivered to me.
The Sultan of Johor was my client too whenever they travel to cold countries they will return with leathers and furs and drop it off to my place (That is from Malaysia to Singapore).
This also tells you that I left at the peak of my business to migrate to Canada mainly based on my leather skills (novice patentable system).
And here I start all over again in a strange land (even dry cleaners decline that I speak to their customers for they say I don’t speaks BC English), now my homeland.
This slowing down with services allows me time to perfect the Leather Doctor® System.
My point is, perfect your skills with the best leather system available come first.
Pickups, drop-off, courier are all options that suites you (you have the last say).
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
Roger, one question remains unanswered, which I am sure a lot here are secretly asking in their own minds...........................................................
Will you do doing any leather training courses :?:
If so, when and where :?:
I don't mind being the mug that always asks the questions
Thanks,
Ooroo :roll:
Will you do doing any leather training courses :?:
If so, when and where :?:
I don't mind being the mug that always asks the questions
Thanks,
Ooroo :roll:
If there's enough interest and time, maybe you can coordinate a training session while we are at Connections.
I will be happy to share my experiences.
We can host a demonstration with some hands-on or just a discussion with questions and answers.
If it sounds good, let me know so that I can make preparation.
What do you think?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
I will be happy to share my experiences.
We can host a demonstration with some hands-on or just a discussion with questions and answers.
If it sounds good, let me know so that I can make preparation.
What do you think?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
I arrive in Lost Wages on the Monday prior to Connections, so have then & Tuesday available.
I also have a free day the Saturday straight after Connections finishes, as I can't fly out until the Sunday.
Do we have any other interested members here that would like to participate :?:
I'm a definite starter for this :mrgreen:
Ooroo :roll:
PS ::: Sorry Roger, I'm NOT a gambler, Lost Wages is what I see in Las Vegas :wink:
I also have a free day the Saturday straight after Connections finishes, as I can't fly out until the Sunday.
Do we have any other interested members here that would like to participate :?:
I'm a definite starter for this :mrgreen:
Ooroo :roll:
PS ::: Sorry Roger, I'm NOT a gambler, Lost Wages is what I see in Las Vegas :wink:
harryhides
Member
Depending on the day, I would be interested in learning more about the leather clothing stuff from Roger. I'm only in Vegas Sept 24 to 27th.
Besides, I can always get together with Roger more often once I move to BC.
Listening to Roger conversing with Shorty is an experience I look forward to immensely since they have both mangled the English language as I know it, into something akin to several intergalactic dialects. :mrgreen:
Once you have some of the principles of Rogers system down pat and have seen a few examples in person, the rest can be easily done via e-mail in my opinion, based on my limited experience. If Roger is willing, I'd like to video enough of what he does so that poor sods like John M and others can get started on learning this too.
Besides, I can always get together with Roger more often once I move to BC.
Listening to Roger conversing with Shorty is an experience I look forward to immensely since they have both mangled the English language as I know it, into something akin to several intergalactic dialects. :mrgreen:
Once you have some of the principles of Rogers system down pat and have seen a few examples in person, the rest can be easily done via e-mail in my opinion, based on my limited experience. If Roger is willing, I'd like to video enough of what he does so that poor sods like John M and others can get started on learning this too.
My travelling itinerary is as follows :
Arriving Las Vegas - 24th Sept. (Wednesday) - 3p.m.
Leaving Las Vegas - 26th Sept. (Friday) 4 p.m. - flight is at 7.30p.m.
I have booked in at Sahara.
I am only at the Connection to register my attendance at IICRC, and am available all the time.
Let me know how I can help.
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
Arriving Las Vegas - 24th Sept. (Wednesday) - 3p.m.
Leaving Las Vegas - 26th Sept. (Friday) 4 p.m. - flight is at 7.30p.m.
I have booked in at Sahara.
I am only at the Connection to register my attendance at IICRC, and am available all the time.
Let me know how I can help.
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
Jack May
That Kiwi
That's awesome Tony if Roger is ok with that.
Only, so long as it doesn't end up with the MF06 or 07 crayon demo that never came through
John
Only, so long as it doesn't end up with the MF06 or 07 crayon demo that never came through
John
